how to get a refund

When I blogged about how my Doreen Virtue certificates were worthless to my business after the Teacher denounced the very essence on her work HERE, HERE and HERE I initially had no plans to ask for refunds for any of the courses, mainly because I didn’t know my rights as a consumer. It was the talk about a possible class action lawsuit that made me realise that I did indeed have a valid claim after how unprofessionally both Doreen Virtue and Hay House handled questions and claims from concerned students. 

Those of us who had totally legit questions and had the courage to ask them on the student forums were quickly shut down and had either comments or whole conversation threads deleted. This taught us to quickly start taking screenshots of anything we posted in these forums, as well as to start sharing the evidence of Doreen Virtue’s unprofessional conduct in the form of not only ignoring questions by student but then turning on them with gaslighting. I have documented my own attempt to get a refund for my Angelologist course HERE. In the end I got a ‘reimbursement’ (NOT a refund) but not without a very nasty note from the Angeologists.com camp (see linked article).

I made my refund claim after I found out that the Rescue Ranch was going to shut down and that Doreen and Michael had started giving most of the animals who had been promised their forever homes with the help of funding from the sales of some of the courses sold on Angeologist.com, including the Angelologist and Fairyologist courses. You can read the excellent article by my fairyologist friend, the Celtic Fairy, where she analyses the numbers for the Rescue Ranch in light of Michael Virtue’s claim that they course fees only covered 10% of the feed bill HERE.

Around the time of receiving my refund for the Angelologist course, I found out that several of my friends who turned directly to Hay House’s CEO Reid Tracy managed to receive refunds for not just one but all of their Doreen Virtue courses, dating as far back as three years in some cases. This made me realise that Hay House is now doing some serious damage limitation. What a shame they didn’t listen sooner but hopefully they will learn from this.

So this is what I suggest you do if you have bought certification courses from Doreen Virtue and have suffered financial loss and/or damage to the reputation of your business because of it: email Reid Tracy. Include the reasons for your claim and feel free to include any of the linked videos at the top of the post as evidence. 

ETA 16 Nov, 2017

Those of you who bought any courses from the Angel Therapy site, please make a double entry complaint with the Federal Trade Commission to include both Angel Therapy Inc and Hay House Inc since they are complicit in passing people with refund requests from pillar to post. The evidence is found on the terms & conditions page on the Angel Therapy site.

angel therapy inc doreen virtue and hay house inc scam

You need the following business adresses:

Angel Therapy®, Inc.
P.O. Box 1444
Snohomish, WA 98291

Email: info@angeltherapy.com

Hay House Inc
2750 Progress St,
Vista, CA 92081
USA

Email: RTracy@hayhouse.com

Phone for both (yes, it’s a HH number!) (800) 654-5126 Ext 1

Include specific evidence of mistreatment, such as being excluded from student forums for simply asking questions and/or having your questions deleted.

Include specific examples of poor/non-existent customer care.

Those of you who bought courses on the promise that they were donations based (giving the dissolved Avalon Animal Sanctuary animals their forever home and who were denied a refund also have a case with the Federal Trade Commission. You need to file this complaint in the scam category. You can find out all the facts about this charity fraud HERE.
You will need the following contact info for Doreen Virtue LLC when filing a complaint against charity fraud:
Website: http://earthangel.com
Email address: info@earthangel.com

ETA 29 Sep, 2017

Reid Tracy confirmed today that Hay House will honour refunds for any courses bought via the AngelTherapy.com site:

Hi Lisa
Hay House helps run angeltherapy.com for Doreen and only Hay House fulfilled products and courses are sold on that site . Doreen has her own website run by her and her family and that is earthangel.com and Hay House has no association with that site.
Any course bought on angeltherapy.com can be refunded as they are Hay House sponsored courses.
ETA later in the day 29, 2017 – Shocking Developments. Reid Tracy claims the statement was a MISTAKE. Read about all the developments here. At this point in time, I don’t see how this won’t turn into class action.

Don’t worry if you have already been fobbed off by Hay House customer service. I was too. You just have to try again and don’t accept store credit. You deserve the full amount in cash. If your claim is older than 12 months, simply ask for a cheque or bank transfer if they claim they can’t credit your card. The talk of a class action law suits in the spiritual community is not likely to go away until all of Doreen’s students who have suffered loss have received full compensation.

Many of us were first dismissed by Hay House customer service with a generic copy and paste reply about how they supported Doreen Virtue’s change of path and something along the lines of how she is embracing a path of non-judgmental Christianity (really now?!). They also claimed that her course certificates were still valid and that she never renounced any of her teachings. I guess they didn’t count on the public paying attention to Doreen’s various announcements, especially the ones made to her new Christian friends.

Those of you who have claims directly with Doreen Virtue and EarthAngel.com may have to go down the legal route since they seem to randomly refund only some people. However, you may wish to keep emailing them about your reasons for wanting a refund. You never know, they may even start to listen. A couple of days ago, I emailed one of the moderators of the fairyologist course and got this reply:

The first email seems a bit panicked. The second email arrived  10 minutes later after this person probably realised they had not responded in a professional manner. I responded with a repetition of my claim for the fairyologist course (already pointed out in the original email) and got the following reply:

“She hasn’t denounced her own work.

Why would anyone do that?

She said she works with flower fairies.”

As any fairyologist knows – ‘A belief in only the flower fae doth not a faeryologist make.’ Celtic Fairy goes into depth about why the fairyologist course is null and void in THIS ARTICLE. Celtic Fairy (presumably because she pushed hard enough) did manage to get a refund for this course but so far most of my fairyologist friends (me included) have not been refunded and keep getting fobbed off.

Out of all the courses, the most obvious one that all students should have instantly and automatically been refunded for is the ‘Psychic Development Course.’ I have not yet asked for a refund for this course, simply because I forgot that I had signed up for it. The reason why it was so forgettable is probably the same reason that it is gone from Doreen’s site – It was fantasy from start to finish and it explains a lot about how the ‘visions’ Doreen Virtue used to refer to as ‘Divine’ and ‘angelic,’ are now referred to as coming from lower energy and demons.

I do feel for those of Doreen’s followers who are choosing to bury their heads in the sand but this article is not for them – It is for those of us who have kept our eyes and ears open t0 the facts about this situation rather than the just going with the emotional pull of blindly following a ‘beloved leader’ as one of her fans referred to her in a comment on another post.

When this all started four weeks ago, I had no idea (certainly no intention) that I would still be blogging about it a month down the line. However, I have posted again because it has been requested by fellow metaphysical students.  Hopefully this will be the last blog post I have to write on the matter of refunds.

ETA 8 February: This just in from someone who commented on this recent blog post:

Doreen Virtue Angeologists Course Refunds

So it seems some people are now getting refunded for the Angelologists course. Might be worth giving it another shot if you have been denied in the past!

Blessed Be!

Lisa

61 thoughts on “How to Get a Refund for Your Doreen Virtue Course”

      1. Absolutely. I was told that I would be getting all the refunds back in 7-10 days. They apologized profusely.

        I will send another update once the money starts coming back to my account.

  1. An update also on my position. Thanks to you Lisa, I have been in contact with Hayhouse and explained all. Reid replied within an hour, and Melissa within a few days. She has said that she will be refunding me, but nothing has come through as yet. If all goes well, which I shall update you on here, my faith will be restored Hayhouse – tentative due to the Teal Swan thing though. However, they have treated us like human beings, which is more than I can say for Virtue an Co.

    1. Hi Lilac Willow, it can take a few days for money to be put back on your credict card. Their word is good. I got all of mine now. And yes, Teal Swan *smh*

      1. Yes, it went through today and considering I was actually enrolled in the first class of both the CACR and Adv. CACR, which was 5 and 4 years ago, they went above and beyond.

        However, I would not have done it had you not got the ball rolling, so thank you for that xo

  2. Lisa,

    Once again I thank you for your encouragement, investigative work, your support, and for allowing me to vent my frustrations.

    Thank you, in particular, for defending us against trolls. The strength you have shown has taught me a great deal.

    It is because of you I finally plucked up the courage to email Reid Tracy and Michael ‘Virtue’ to request a full refund.

    Reid’s reply was almost instant, apologetic and there was no argument at all. I have yet to hear from MV.

    This is the most confrontational thing I have ever done and I really don’t care if the ‘mean girls’ think that’s weak! You gave me the courage and I am very grateful.

    Keep up the good work. The world needs people like you.

    Angela xx

  3. Thank you sooo much for doing this. We need a support group so badly. For weeks, I needed a community to work through all this with. DV could have changed paths in a respectful way. I could honor that. The way the business side of hers and Hay House’s has been handled is inadequate at best. To say because it’s spiritual, we shouldn’t stand up for ourselves is wrong. They are the ones that taught spirituality in business for payment is good. We need a support group to find our way through this in order to have a positive outcome.Thank you Again!

  4. How anybody could have taken this psycho seriously at all confounds me? How could you let yourselves be taken in by someone who talked nothing but bullshit? Nothing this woman ever said had any meaning behind it. You were a means to an end. Her willingness to insult us by offering total bullshit “tarot” decks and “oracle” cards and certification in her bullshit system, really? What is a fairyologist? What is an Angelologist? Can you call yourselves that with a straight face? I am truly embarrassed for all of you that bought into the bullshit, but this is rather a fitting end. DV is known for her rabidly stupid fans and I always said this would happen. Everyone can be as butt hurt as they want, Doreen isn’t. Remember she has no real accreditation; neither did Jim Jones. Your cult leader let you down and took all your money. Now she’s going to do the same to the Christian fundamentalist retards. Either way you look at it, DV will still be making more money than any of you will ever see. Perhaps you all should stop trying to pussify tarot and mediumship and stop being pathetic drones who bought into a total bullshit artists scam.

    1. ‘Don’t feed the trolls’ springs to mind as I sit down to type out me reply to your utterly ridiculous and shockingly rude comment. The only reason I bother is because you have insulted my friends. How very dare you? But that’s the internet for you – jobless trolls who lack a command of their native language running around spreading their frustration at being complete failures. There are doctors, lawyers, translators and highly successful business women among Doreen’s students. People I know personally who have studied with her are some of the most intelligent people I know. How about you tell published author Dylan Potter that his PhD thesis in Angelology is not a real subject? I think the word you were struggling to find when you were so busy locating the most insulting words possible to express your hatred of people who have studied with Doreen Virtue is ‘discernment.’ Those of us who have come out the other side of this are very aware that our discernment failed in this instance and that we trusted the wrong teacher with our time and money. So what about your own spiritual discernment? Are you proud of your use of time, ‘Aqua Tofana’? What’s your real name? Where do you live? What do you do for a living? How much do you earn? Who have you studied with? What is your super power that gives you the right to come here and vomit your hatred on everyone? Those are all rhetorical questions. It is clear that your entire life is one long butt hurt or you wouldn’t be here trolling people you don’t know. Please crawl back under your rock.

      1. Honestly Lisa, I have become your biggest fan. Balls of steel and master intelligence, you are one heck of a woman!

        As for this moron, one thing that has bugged me a little is the superior attitude of people who didn’t buy her material and who are taking time out of their day to focus on the stupidity of those who did. It’s all about intent people who feel superior. Most of us who did pursue studies with her were either dealing with tough real life challenges, like disease and death, or had a lot of clients who were dealing with issues beyond cheating on their spouses. I know I helped a lot of people who were dealing with very intense real life issues and angel therapy was such a gentle tool that helped in a soothing way. So, don’t be so quick to judge, please, it’s unnecessary. It has nothing to do with stupidity, it had everything to do with a decent product being marketed in a great way, by someone who sadly ended up being a fraud.

  5. I contacted them AGAIN today…
    “Again i am contacting re a refund for realm readers and fairyolgist course that i took and pasted last year. I feel i now cant pass on my knowledge in this area as DV has done 180° tilt on the whole thing. Im sick of being fobbed off and ignored by yourselves. I feel my certification now stands for nothing and i have had people cancel realm readings, and cancelled lessons on the fae. I am now losing out on my business as the general public are as confused as the rest of us. And also today all the videos have been taken down off youtube… without any notification to those of us that trusted our livelihood in the DV enterprise. I have spent hard earned money extending my knoweldge via books, decks and courses written by and associated with DV over the years.. now i am asking once again for a refund on both my realm readers course and the fairyology course.”
    Thank you

  6. Thank you Lisa for getting straight to the truth and for giving me the courage to ask and get a refund and do what is right. The Doreen brand, which is what I purchased, is not credible anymore for spiritual work so people are entitled to a refund.

  7. Thank you Lisa for your courage and for creating a safe space for everyone to communicate their feelings and beliefs. Each of us arrives here with our unique perspective and each of us feel similarly and differently lol. I applaud you in assisting others get refunds as I believe that’s the honorable thing for HH and DV to do. Her students have sacrificed to pay for these classes in the hopes of creating a career and feeding their families – DV flippant dismissal of Tarot, mediumship, ascended masters, Reiki and other religions has harmed many of her loyal students and followers. In addition to that is the one that upsets me the most, the rescue ranch. First to even solicit donations actively left me uneasy. There was just something about it that was off. I felt the numbers were off and DV saying they blew through their savings rankled me. Many of her students blew through their savings to take her courses. I took the Angel Reader Certification in July 2014 in Baltimore at a cost of $150 which is money I could’ve spent in other ways. I don’t think her certification has ever really assisted me anyway. In my our class there were several hundred people who had also spent $150 and by my guess that was a 75K day (not counting all the oracle cards hawked that day) so for her so her pleading poverty actually pisses me off. I could show her poverty and it’s nothing she’s ever experienced. The deceit to get people to “feed” HER rescue and then to dismiss those poor animals like a teenager who is off on the next FAD infuriates me. Her credibility is zero in my eyes. I can’t even fathom thinking of her past work because now I question her motives behind EVERYTHING so all her books and oracle cards are to me a bad reminder of someone I once thought of as having I intrigity – ALL faith in her is lost. And for the record I don’t care who she worships – she can worship a toaster for all I care. I DO however care that she has hurt her students ability to build their businesses and take care of their families and for the animals who were promised love and a forever home in Hawaii, my heart weeps for them – those harmed by her greed and deceit

    1. Oh Nancy, I could hug you! “I DO however care that she has hurt her students ability to build their businesses and take care of their families and for the animals who were promised love and a forever home in Hawaii, my heart weeps for them – those harmed by her greed and deceit.” It is for THEM I write – thank you for getting that! <3

  8. I find it astonishing that there are people who seriously thinks/believes that one has no right to a refund in the spiritual community. Everywhere else it’s a policy that if you’re not satisfied with the product/service you’re entitled to a refund. No questions asked. In this case with Doreen Virtue she’s turned her back on her students in her statements of denouncing her previous work and saying it was wrong and of ‘lower energy’. Add then the fact that so many of her students were banned, blocked and got their comments deleted when they, in a very polite manner, asked constructive questions and questions about factual errors they found in the course materials. You have the right as a costumer to ask for refunds when you’re not satisfied with your purchase no matter what it is or who’s behind it/produced it.
    I applaud you Lisa for being so brave and assertive so others dare to speak up too 🙂 It’s not easy to stick one’s neck out when there’s so many who are willing to attack you for defending your rights. Blessed be <3

    1. Absolutely Therece, Doreen Virtue runs a business and there are certain obligations that come with that – especially when that business is teaching others how to set themselves up in business in a way that lends their business credibility. Accountability is long overdue. I’m just pleased that Hay House finally realise this.

  9. Thank you so much Lisa, for standing up and helping others with this mess! Hay House is issuing refunds because they are at least aware at the seriousness of this situation. I’m amazed at how many dont understand the importance of this. The importance of calling out those who are NOT standing in the integrity that they themselves so often preach others to do! This is the time of the unveiling and no matter what, the truth is being revealed all over the place. So brace yourselves, if you are just content to accept fraud and turn a blind eye, maintain the status quo and stick your head in the sane, things are getting get very uncomfortable for you.

    1. You’re welcome, Krystyne! My heart sings every time I get a message from someone who tells me they have been awarded a full refund. That’s truly what makes it worth it to keep going for me. There are always going to be those who shy away from what is actually happening in favour of the dream and the bubble they are in. Oh well… 🙂 xx

  10. I have purchased many books and decks of doreen. I used to consider what she taught as points of reference because I trusted that as a teacher she surely did her own research in depth, tried and tested them before imparting such knowledge to others. That’s what a teacher does. A teacher should teach only when they are sure of the knowledge that have acquired, knowing that there is truth in it.
    However, what do you do when the teacher themselves make a complete u-turn and now says she gave wrong info and that she’s sorry for everything she’s taught? when the teacher no longer stands by their own teaching, that teaching no longer holds much value because to whom does the student then turn to for support when they need it? to that same teacher who now says no i didn’t teach you properly? what credibility does that teacher hold now? To those saying that asking for refunds is wrong, please understand that this is not “just” about the paper certificate. It’s about the moral obligation of a teacher that has effectively abandoned her students without so much as any proper support or transference to another teacher who can continue giving the required support. The feeling is that whatever was taught no longer holds true, and i feel that is ground enough to ask for a refund of that investment. Unfortunately the time invested cannot be refunded but at least the amount paid can be given back so that the student can have a chance to search for better and more reliable teachers elsewhere.

  11. Hi Lisa,
    thank you so much for sharing this article. It has helped me immensely in fighting for my rights as a customer of Hay House.
    And yes, I do need a certification for insurance purposes as I live in the UK and that is how it works here. The certificate is now completely worthless and I need to make other arrangements.
    I do not base my reputation on Doreen and her teachings and I would love to know where the motivation of those people that are saying that getting a refund is wrong is coming from. It is my right as a customer and has nothing to do with anything else.
    Blessings to you Lisa for helping us out.
    Claudia xxx

  12. I’m just wondering why so many people think it is wrong to issue a refund? It’s a consumer right – the product was not as promised. For example, I was booted from the Fairyologist group after I talked to Doreen directly (see my blog post here http://www.thecelticfairy.com/2017/09/06/an-open-letter-to-doreen-virtue/ where I address what happened).

    She has treated her students badly and not apologised for it. I got an apology from Michael Virtue and refund for my course, but when I asked further questions I was ignored.

    The Fairyologist course itself is of a low quality. She does not pronounce words correctly and she implies that you must be vegan to communicate with fairies. This is not true.

    Please explain why you don’t think I was entitled to a refund.

    1. Well said, Ursula… Hmmmmm… Indeed, what could the motive be for someone to go to a blog post and comment just to deny someone their basic customer rights….

  13. Look, I took Doreen’s classes and staffed 7 ATPs and many other, one day events. I am even in 2 of her books. Although I am angry with her, for recent personal reasons not related to this change, I think this refund stuff is absurd!! When you take these classes, they are an investment in yourself! If you got what you needed out of the classes, you got what you paid for! That means no one owes you anything! There is no promise that comes with what is essentially a certificate of completion…not a college degree of any kind….that promises you a career. Doreen never had the power to “deem you worthy” or to “notarize” your connection to Spirit. Like I said, they are certificates of completion! You completed the work. You got the paper. These days, you don’t even have to show up, since most of it is online. If you took the classes for a certificate, so that you could feel validated, and NOT for personal growth and development, then you missed the point and were there for the wrong reasons. Also, just because she has changed her views does not mean what was learned is invalid because what is real to you should be based on your experiences, NOT a piece of paper. If you are hanging your entire reputation on papers on your wall, instead of your actual skills, then there is a problem. If you were too attached to the messenger, not the message, there is a problem. Neither of those things are on anyone but you. I am pretty sure any good lawyer will tell you the same things.

    1. Hi Lisa, thank you for sharing your opinion. It would seem that Hay House does not share your opinion since they are busy issuing full refunds for all certificate courses. If you are right about a good lawyer saying what you are saying here, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t be doing that.

    2. Actually any good lawyer, engineer and accountant will tell you the base for a certification is to get a certificate and that certificate it’s what makes you be, redundantly, certified, which means? You need the piece of paper. And I speak from knowledge. I am a business enginneering student. So that’s something I know closely. I can assure you that in order for any business and any degree to have a basis the ones imparting such knowledgement need to stand by it, and be truthful. Honor it. Specially when they happen to be touching the very fiber of someone’s being as it is when they are mentioning soul, spirit, and things like that. From a logical point of you, she’s got the right of speech, it’s a free right, like our free will for example. But the difference is that freedom of speech is an actual gubernmental right in most countries. So, she can do whatever she wants. And it’s a service, so anybody who would like a refund, can even sue your friend Doreen Virtue for their money if they want so, on the grounds that she’s been fraudulent towards her teachings, and that would end your friend Doreen Virtue’s career, from all sides. So it’s best, that they give refunds when they’re asked for them, to keep a certain respect among consumers, because with this thing going on? A consumer’s right lawyer would be making a great deal of bucks out of your friend. I took certifications from her too, I asked HayHouse for a refund and they’re giving it to me, because I know my rights and I’m a good consumer. It’s a consumer’s right to ask for what they need. She’s not being accountable with her own certifications, it means anybody can ask for their money back. It’s a free world. Live in it. Enjoy it.

      Blessings, my dear Lisa. Live your own life. Best of luck

          1. First, I have never been a bully nor am I trying to be. Second, I am no longer her “friend”. You may have missed that part. I just do not understand how, once you got exactly what you paid for, you are entitled to a refund. There was never any disclaimer saying that she would never change. The certs. and the whatever you gained from the classes are still valid. I guess I just never cared enough about the piece of paper or where it could get me. I have been too busy raising my daughter for the last 7 years and dealing with health issues the last year to even care what DV does. I have had no contact with her for at least 4 years. Is it possible that HH is only giving refunds because it is cheaper than dealing with a law suit?

    3. Imagine if Joel Olsteen (or another famous, respected Christian leader) suddenly decided that he was going to start doing Tarot readings, teaching about fairies and other metaphysical matters. Not only that, but, what if he apologized for teaching people about Christianity, which he now believes is wrong and even evil. The Christian community would be freaking out, feeling duped and defrauded.

      Why is this any different?

      Some people do not realize how much is invested in these spiritual teachers and so-called leaders. I never saw DV as my teacher, though I did take a class and found it extremely wanting. However, I know many people who were devout followers, and, she is saying “Sorry if I was doing evil stuff, I didn’t know.” She is telling the world she did not know herself or the energy she was working with. In my book, that makes her a fraud.

      Converting is one thing, but, continuing some of the very classes (for money) that you claim are bad or wrong, after you became the rich off of them, it lacks integrity at best. I think that she has attached a negative energy to all of her decks, by her own words. I won’t use them again.

  14. Thank you for your research. I’ve given this link to clients and friends.

    Here is my interpretation of what happened to Doreen:
    *****
    The truth is that this blog is probably one of the hardest I’ve ever written, but Spirit’s message is clear: I must share this message.

    If you’ve been in the metaphysical, spiritual, Angel, or Hay House community, you probably have heard of Doreen Virtue. And if you’ve been in this community for any length of time, you are probably aware of the complete 180 Doreen has recently taken in her personal beliefs and teachings.

    While some are calling her shift “getting right with God” or “being saved,” I think there is much more happening here than what meets the eye.

    I want to begin my saying this blog is my opinion. It’s my intuited opinion. It’s an opinion based on information provided by 1. my past personal relationship Doreen 2. Doreen’s own teachings and 3. Direct message from spirit.

    Doreen Virtue is a walk in, and the walk in soul is now calling the shots.

    Ouch. Did that hurt? It sure hurt me.

    I owe Doreen Virtue a lot, and the truth is that I’ve sat on this information since late 2011/early 2012 because I was afraid of hurting her. I love and respect Doreen, and that hasn’t changed.

    If you will give me the opportunity, I will explain fully why I believe Doreen Virtue is now a walk-in, and what we should do about it.

    In 2011, my life crashed all around me. My husband lost his job because of my “angel ministry” and a few hours after that, we were evicted from the home we had lived in for almost 3 years and were in the process of buying. A good friend offered to loan me the money to buy the house immediately but the owners would not sell it to us. This was a conflict for their faith. I had been accused of witch craft.

    I wrote on Doreen’s Facebook post asking for prayers. To my great surprise, she personally responded and we created a “friendship” of sorts. I say “of sorts” because while this was a huge deal for me, I think this was just another day in her life. But let me be very clear here: she literally and metaphorically saved us.

    She was my teacher and over the next several months, we communicated a few times a week. I was in the lowest point of my life: homeless with 3 children. We lived in a hotel by the interstate for a few weeks, with my mom for a few weeks and then in low income housing, as we tried to rebuild our lives. My “angel ministry” had cost my family everything but I gained a friend in Doreen.

    In late 2011, I woke from a bad dream. In the dream, Doreen was being pulled away from me. I woke to intense pain in my chest. I immediately got up and wrote her. She was in Hawaii and I was in Oklahoma. There was always a big time difference.

    I told her about my dream and that I feared something was wrong with her.
    And my friend, the person I communicated with often, ghosted me. No communication from her again. Ever.

    It took me a little while to piece together what had happened.

    A few days later, Doreen posted on fb that her fiancé Michael (Not her current husband, who is also named Michael) died. Michael was in her band and she was devastated. Doreen withdrew from public life for a while.

    In early 2012, Doreen re-emerged – different.
    First, she was engaged to Michael Robinson (Virtue). She changed from blonde to brunette. She gave herself bangs. And I dare to say that Michael Robinson hardly seemed like her type.

    Shortly thereafter, she announced she would no longer be traveling for Hay House.

    She and Michael Robinson took trips to Disney often and announced they would be getting married there but later changed her mind. She and Michael made mermaid movies to raise awareness for earth.

    This new Doreen was edgier. Bolder. She didn’t mince words. She penned a strongly worded letter to the “bullies” picking on her son. This Doreen was so different and I knew I couldn’t pretend that she was the same person anymore.

    From this point on, Doreen2 is the walk in soul (dark hair, edgier)
    and Doreen1 is the walk out soul (blonde and gentle).

    In January 2013, I sent one last email to Doreen. I began by explaining who I was, after all, Doreen2 had no connection to me. I also explained that I fully believed she was a walk in and I laid out the evidence. I ended the letter with something to the effect of “the work you are here to do will be important but find a way to make this life your own.”

    I never felt the need to share my feelings on the Doreen2 walk in message, so I sent the email and went about life.

    Doreen2 left Hawaii and has made some significant changes to make this life her own. She has joined a traditional episcopal church and she has abandoned many of her metaphysical teachings. She has been baptized and asked for forgiveness for her sins. Doreen no longer endorses tarot cards, not even her own. She also has walked away from mediumship and prophecy.

    In a video that was deleted, she recommended that we burn her old books and cards like Arch Angels and Ascended Masters. She also asked that we consider joining a church and getting baptized, neither of which I have a problem with.

    If you’ve known me for any length of time, you know this: I’m a Christian Mystic. I am a denotative Christian; this means I follow the teachings of Christ. I read the gospels at least once a month and I am always seeking the wisdom of Yeshua.

    So when I heard Doreen was taking more of a Christian path, I was happy! I work every single day to build bridges between Christianity and Spirituality.

    But it broke my heart when Doreen2 started distancing and separating herself from Doreen1’s work. The bridge is created by INCLUSION. It’s in ACCEPTANCE.

    Doreen2’s words don’t make me feel safe in inclusion and acceptance. They make me afraid that she’s not building a bridge to unity but burning one down. This became very clear for me in the deleted video when Doreen2 said that God forgave her because he knows she didn’t mean to mislead people with her previous writings and teachers.

    Doreen has created a multi-million dollar empire out of angel cards, tarot cards, books, classes and videos, so now we must discern which of her teachings are sinful?

    I don’t use tarot cards. I never have, but I also don’t believe they are evil. I think they are a tool and just like a hammer, I can use the tool to build a house or hurt someone. Tools are neither inherently good or evil. They have no value outside of what we give them. And many of the tools of the metaphysical world are neutral.

    Let’s talk about mediumship for a moment.
    Doreen2 has said she will not do mediumship anymore, but Doreen1’s words in The Light Worker’s Way demonstrate the importance of mediumship in healing.

    I’m afraid that Doreen2’s conversion will negatively influence mediumship. Why is Doreen2 now walking away from it? What does the bible say about mediumship?

    Most people reference King Saul, the medium (witch) of Endor and the summoning of Samuel when it comes to denouncing mediumship. If you read the scripture, you will see that Samuel “is called up” and “ascends out of the ground.”
    Friends – that’s not a transcended spirit! That’s something entirely different. Transcended spirits do not “rise out of the earth.” I’m not too sure what they were doing but I am certain it wasn’t communication with a transcended loved one.

    In Matthew 22:24, the Apostles asked Yeshua about the old law of Moses, where if a man dies without children, his brother must marry his wife. And what happens when seven brothers all die and the wife remains, whose wife will she be in heaven?
    Yeshua explains that they do not know scripture or the power of God and that transcended spirits “will be like the angels in heaven.”

    And we already know Angelic communication is okay. Afterall, it was Arch Angel Gabriel who announced the births of both Yeshua and John the Baptist.

    Furthermore, the Apostle Paul outlined the 9 spiritual gifts in I Corinthians 12.
    Wisdom. Knowledge. Faith. Healing. Miraculous Powers. Discernment. Prophecy. Tongues. Interpreting of Tongues.

    I believe Mediumship falls under Healing and interpretation of tongues. After all, I Corinthians 13 begins with “If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels”. . . mediumship is interpreting the language of Spirit. And discernment is the ability to know who you are communicating with.
    As for the healing power of mediumship, nothing can help a mother’s heart heal more than hearing from her child in Spirit. If you’ve never been witness to this miraculous healing, then you cannot possibly understand how powerful and healing it truly is.

    As a medium, I only communicate with transcended loved ones in spirit. They are like the angels in heaven and it is one of the most powerful healing gifts on the planet.

    I’m worried that Doreen2’s separation from mediumship will 1. hurt all of us who are truly trying to build a bridge between Christianity and Spirituality and 2. will negate the wonderful work Doreen1 did as a medium

    I personally have no idea why she’s walking away from prophesy, as it is a clearly outlined spiritual gift in scripture. I also can’t understand why she’s offering angelology classes that “do not teach you how to communicate with angels.”

    I want to be clear that I support Doreen2 and her decisions to make this life her own.
    But I also feel strongly that we need to remember and honor the teachings of Doreen1. Doreen1 worked so very hard, for decades, to create these teachings.

    Here’s one more interesting piece of information:
    In 2002, Doreen published a small book called: Earth Angels. It was a small blue book with good information on incarnate angels, elementals, wise ones, star seeds and . . . . walk ins.
    Chapter 6 (page 99) outlined walk in souls.
    Walk ins “make sudden and drastic changes, such as changing their first name, moving, divorcing, switching careers, adopting different religious beliefs, and so on.”

    Wait! Go read that again.. .
    drastic changes. . . moving. . . changing careers. . . changing religions. . .

    Let’s examine this further:
    “So, Walk-In souls don’t remember these exchanges clearly. All they know is that their lives suddenly don’t make sense. Out of the blue (as opposed to feeling gradual dissatisfaction), they feel as if they’re living in the wrong movie.”

    Now, let’s add another interesting piece of this puzzle. . .
    Doreen reworked this book in 2014 (now called Earth Angel Realms) , a full 3 years after the date I suspect the walk in/walk out took place, and the entire chapter on walk ins is missing. Why is it missing? That’s weird. Right?

    Now, I fully adit, I’ve never really been comfortable with the concept of a walk in/walk out. I don’t like it. It feel icky, but I also feel the same way about demonic/dark entities. Just because it makes me uncomfortable doesn’t mean it’s not real.

    So let’s take a look at the evidence:

    Doreen spent decades teaching us how to communicate with angels
    She was kind, loving, peaceful and nonjudgemental.
    We all know the Doreen we loved until 2011.
    Her finance dies (2011) and she disappears for a while
    Doreen re-emerges with dark hair and engaged to Michael Robinson

    She stops touring with Hay House
    She spends a lot of time at Disney and plans to marry there
    She produces several short mermaid movies
    She is edgier. Bolder. Pens the letter to son’s bullies
    She leaves Hawaii
    She stops “reading” cards
    She no longer wears long, flowing clothes
    She joins a traditional Christian Church
    She walks away from her metaphysical books, videos and cards
    She walks away from prophesy
    She walks away from mediumship
    She asks us to burn certain books and cards
    She reworks Earth Angels and omits the chapter on walk ins

    Basically, Doreen2 has changed everything about her life, and that’s okay. I’m glad she is making this life her own. She has every right to do so.

    All I’m asking is that we understand that Doreen1 still stands by her legacy, her work, her teachings and her writings. She is still standing in her integrity.
    We just have to understand that Doreen1 and Doreen2 are different souls – with different paths. Follow the teacher who speaks your language.

    I’m not upset with Doreen2. Not really. She has every right to change her life to reflect who she is now. I just want us to not throw away all the hard work of Doreen1.

    I also want to make sure that I say I fully support Doreen2. I know that her work is needed on this planet, even if that work is different than the work of Doreen1. I hope she continues to teach and write and speak. And I hope that she doesn’t regard the metaphysical/spiritual community as her enemy. . . since one of her most recent posts was about the backlash from the spiritual community and she said to pray for your enemies. We need bridges. We need tolerance and understanding.

    And I know many of you are wondering. . . has Doreen1 reached out from spirit?
    And the answer is Yes. But not just to me – to many of us who followed her teachings. I think we assumed it was just her higher self communicating for a while. None of us wanted to believe she had left the earth plane.
    But with time and continued contact, we’ve made peace with the situation.

    But in all honesty, how can this surprise any of us?
    Doreen WROTE THE BOOK explaining what a walk in is! She literally wrote the book! So why should this surprise any of us?
    Maybe spirit knew this would happen someday and guided her to write the book to prepare us for when it happened.

    So these are my opinions. My thoughts. My perspective.
    Maybe you agree; maybe you don’t.

    But I offer it up as explanation for Doreen’s sudden 180 shift in her religious beliefs and how we can make sense of it and move forward.

    Also, I’ve been recommending Doreen’s works for years. I’ve recommended her to my friends, my clients, my family and sometimes, even just strangers on the street! LOL So I feel like I need to explain what’s happening, so my clients will understand. Yes, I will continue to recommend the work of Doreen1. I believe her work matters and is very important.

    And to my friend Doreen1, I remain eternally grateful. Your friendship, compassion and support changed my life. I hope that by following your wishes in writing this article, I can somehow repay the kindness you showed me and my family. Your work changed my life and will continue to change the lives of others.

    To Doreen2, you don’t know me. I’m nobody to you, but I’m thankful you are finding your way. I’m always happy to discuss scripture. I’d really like a chance to state my case for mediumship.
    Be well. Be happy. Be you. Just please be kind to the work of my teacher and friend. namaste.

    1. Thats an interesting take on things, and certainly gives a lot to think about, thank you for sharing your perspective.

    2. Wow this made me cry and it made SO much sense. I followed and loved Doreen for years and what is funny that once the walk-in came in and she changed her hair and demeanour, I just had no resonance to her at all. The goddess was gone. I felt it. That blonde loving goddess left. And I could not figure out til now why I was so not-attracted to her new self. Just zero resonance. Now I know why. Thank you so much for this incredible explanation.

  15. Fyi. The person who calculated the costs of caring for the animals is way off. The study at Perdue was probably based on cows that are mostly grass or pasture fed and cows are not the most expensive animal to take care of. Cost of hay can vary depending on where you live. I pay $4.50 for small square bales in Kentucky but people in Florida and New York pay over twice what I do. I have 7 horses who get about 3 pounds of feed a day (a lot less than a lot of horses). Some horses might get 10 to 12 pounds if grain a day or more! It costs $65 a week for grain. I feed hay for 4 to 5 months in the winter. It costs me $1,500 to $2,500 for hay depending on the weather. So I spend anywhere from $4,880 to $5,880 a year to feed 7 horses in a state where hay is cheap compared to Hawaii. That runs $697 to $840 per horse per year and does not include the vet or farrier or supplements or medicine or any other expenses… like my mortgage payment to provide pasture for my horses. Feed could easily cost ten times as much in Hawaii if not more. They have to ship in all of the grain and most of their hay. I have read they also have to feed hay pretty much year round and I have read that one bale of hay can cost $35!! .

    1. Hi Lori, as Celtic Fairy states in her blog post, these figures are estimatets. We would all love to know the real figures, of course. You may very well be right that horses are more expensive than cows but what we know is that most animals on the farm were much smaller than cows. Sheep, goats, pigs and geese are cheaper to keep feed-wise, I assume. I also know Celtic Fairy counted very low on the number of students, including on the graduates rather than everyone in the FB group (buying the course is a prerequisite for becoming part of the group). If you know how to get hold of the actual numbers for this, please share. All that matters is the truth. The 10% of the feed bill claim does not add up either way.

  16. If you need a reading from someone completely from the ego, Lisa is your man. Who cares if it’s correct, as long as you pay.

    1. Hi Laura, I’m sorry but I don’t understand how this relates to the post about how to get refunds for certification courses. Are you a student of Doreen’s? I’m also not sure about what you mean by ‘someone completely from the ego.’ I think we are all a bit of a mix. We certainly could not function on the earth plane without an ego. I care very much about customer satisfaction. I think the reviews I have received reflect that. I also have a money back guarantee. Did I read for you? Blessings, Lisa

    2. No, if you need someone to help you grow a set of balls, then Lisa is your woman! If you want to be a whiney ass bitch that allows others to screw you up the ass while you bury your head in the sand, then Laura’s got you covered.

      See? I can be a cheeky little bitch too!

  17. Thank you so much Lisa.
    This situation has upset me so much. I wish I had never bothered to try to follow a spiritual path now. I have 11 of DV’s decks and no others. I feel as though it has all been a huge waste of time and effort and I have spent a fortune on various DV courses. I don’t want to start all over again. I don’t want to waste any more money on other courses. I think I should just put it all down to experience and forget about it all. I was so happy when I had something to believe in, before I was made to feel I was evil by the very person I had learned it all from!
    DV always taught that fear is the opposite of love. It seems everything she is spouting these days is coming from a place of fear. I’m fairly sure that a year or two ago THAT was ‘low energy’!
    I’ve heard her going on about how feeding children diagnosed with ADHD etc on a healthy diet will cure them. Whilst I’m a sure this will help, it is another example of how making sweeping statements could potentially be damaging, just like the lady with the suicidal son. She knows people hang on her every word. With that comes responsibility. I am disgusted at myself for being so gullible for so long!

    1. My pleasure, Angela. The emotional impact has been extreme for many people. It’s good to know you’re not alone. Angels are still real and they know your pain. I pray they will wrap their wings around you now. <3

  18. If the success of your business depends on anyone’s reputation other than your own, then I think you are looking in the wrong place for the cause of any difficulties you are facing. Doreen’s courses gave you information which you wouldn’t otherwise have, and from which you were able to move forward in life using your own resources. You can’t blame the teacher if you failed to be able to stand on your own two feet.

    1. Hi Lorelle, of course we are each responsible for the success of our own business but the reason why people decide to go with a certain teacher over another is ususally because that teacher/school has a good, solid name in the community. Those who are new in the spiritual biz world and who more or less built their business around DV certifications are really hit hard by this. It is for them I have written this post. Doreen Virtue claimed to create these courses to help people set themselves up in business and then she goes and tells the world that her old teachings are of lower energy. Accountability is needed and just because these were ‘spiritual’ courses doesn’t mean that students should forfeit their rights as customers.

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